So I tried to engage in a conversation in a feminist friend and this happened... was it too much?

Friend2: @John sure whatever you say. But reducing your argument by insulting me is rather juvenile and itself idiotic. Jane: @Friend2 I love being mansplained Friend2: #Mansplaining #Misogynist #MaleCulture#NothingYouCanDo Jane: @Friend2 I'm grateful to know you. Jane: Sorry for not "earning" your respect @John . To think that respect is "earned" is your own opinion and definition, or possibly the Government's. That said, I can see how I might have come across as presumptuous about your inquiries. You asked me if I was oppressed, how and why, and then quoted the constitution. to me, this gesture seemed like a way to discredit the fact that I could even be allowed to feel the effects of gender inequality, on the basis that I live in Canada and am a Canadian citizen. Jane: @John That said, it's my personal belief that if someone says they're oppressed, hurt, or a victim of something, it's crucial to acknowledge their trauma. Asking them to explain why they feel oppressed or hurt, though seemingly constructive, may in fact be traumatic for them. If you feel as though I oppressed and hurt you, I sincerely apologize. Jane: @John Since you asked me "how" I felt oppressed, and I declined, I chose to provide you with WHY I believe Canada might be oppressing people. You disagreed with me and I think you're fully entitled to believe that there are no oppressive governing bodies in Canada. To me that doesn't mean there isn't discrimination occurring in our society, at the individual, cultural, and institutional level. A great example of institutional discrimination is the temporary foreign worker program. It's both gendered and racialized and denies people with their rights to fair compensation. Jane: @John and, since you asked, I gave you a list of examples of women's issues in Canada. These are ones which the conservative government, and the government of Canada (regardless of who is in power) are accountable for, and to, which involve how the law may be patriarchal in that it disadvantages women. Jane: @John We clearly disagree about what patriarchy is and how it operates, but I think it's complicit in many of the women's issues I outlined above. they speak to the way in which women are made to feel unsafe and how the government has failed to protect them. They're laced with patriarchy because males are not oppressed by them, and that's a part of male privilege. Jane: @John Male privilege is, without a doubt, a historical residue from when "women" were not seen as equal to men in our society. Even though it's 2015, the law might say that women are equal, but our rights to move in society as men do are not. Jane: @John Here's one example from my life, which you've already mobilized as an attempt to insult me: the military culture. I thought that military culture was quite sexist, and very male dominated. Yes, I had great supervisors and instructors who were females, but many of the people I looked up to (male or female) would make discriminatory comments, many about the ability of women to perform in the military, their sex lives, name-calling, and so on. Maybe the law says I have the right to be in the military just as much as men do, but my social place in the military and ability to feel safe was compromised by sexism. I've since released. uniqcloI don't believe it's out of proportion, hilarious, idiotic, or hilariously idiotic to want to eliminate sexism and patriarchy at all levels. As for asking you to educate yourself, I do still encourage you to read more about anti-oppression and social justice, since you've discounted my attempts to educate you. I also thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain myself more clearly @John John: I agree that inequality is something to fight against. What I disagree is your choice to use the word "patriarchy" as a substitution for it. Smash Inequality makes far more sense as a position than Smash Patriarchy. If Patriarchy is alive and well in society, that implies that any one male has more authority over any one particular female. Key segment: "Any one male". Males who hold positions of power such as a Liberal Leader or Professor, have that power because of their position, not because they are male. You could argue that the have the position because they are male, but that would be easily countered with the countless examples of females in positions of power. Patriarchy as a system, would not allow for any females in positions of power. That would defeat the purpose of its definition. Now, society does carry over sexist ideals which has spawned from the past two millenia which is understandable. These beliefs however, indicate a belief of authority, not tangible authority. A belief is merely an opinion, and whether or not someone agrees is entirely within their purview. The only authority they get is that which you give them. If you believe them, you give them that authority. Although I'm a bit confused about when you say "the government has failed to protect them". Are you implying that the Government is failing to protect them from the beliefs of society and individuals? John: Also in regards to the military, you pretty well sign away your rights for your service. It is a VERY oppressive hierarchy, and it needs to be that way in order to function properly and effectively. I felt oppressed in multiple ways ever darn day of my service, but its what I expected, they made it very clear of the kind of institution I was becoming subject too, when I joined. John: Sidenote: I'm not saying your position was hilariously idiotic, or that your goal of equality was idiotic. What I was saying was that your presentation of your argument lacked in a great deal of places (no citations, explanations of points, "in your own words" responses, repetition of "educate yourself" which is in line with "indoctrinate yourself", parroting a catch phrase without understanding it, your inability to understand that when we say "You" we don't mean you personally but rather the oppressed people you speak for, broad statements without narrowing down what you're trying to say) reducing my respect for your ability to present a proper case. Another tidbit, I respect you as a human, I won't infringe on your abilities to live your life. However, why should I respect you as an individual? When someone expects to be respected as an individual, that to me makes me think that they feel themselves to be selfentitled! John: Also, hashtag lady, you're a shining beacon of why social media is dumbing down the conversation.

/r/MensRights Thread Parent