It was a mix of everything. Bad pcs and Internet for most of the ppl, not all used pots etc, theoricrafting wasnt that big back then. New bosse to learn without guides for the early ones. Lack of skill etc etc. We had some really good ppl but many didnt want do go the naxx way because tbc was to be released so they left or didnt raid. We had problems with new recrutes because of gear, skill, time investment etc etc. At the end we needed transfers to get people. The more casual guilds had the same problems that all good guilds had + they lost the best players to the better guilds. Also rent a Tank for 4hm was a big thing. Glad we had people that cared about gear and not only using tier because of style. I helped a friendly raid with my alt and... It was such a difference. One of the best german guilds vs a normal naxx40 guild. Dont remeber correctly if the friend guild cleared at the end, but when i was in the raid for the id we Stuck at thaddius/loatheb. At this point they had no tries on 4hm. Irae Aod<3